LeafLabs Garden

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1. 

   bubulindo
   Member

   @olimexino,

   Yes, I think all this boils down to the purpose of the board. The one you linked before, is excellent to be an awesome stand-alone computing experiment board. But on the other hand if you want it to be as flexible as possible, the less you add on the board, the better.
   So the very least would be the peripherals that you listed plus the battery/RTC crystal.

   Actually, making it compatible with the Maple (or possible future F4 Maples) would be awesome, since that would most likely bring a lot more people to the forum/project and would also put your boards working with free software (IAR isn't free. :( ).

   Regarding the Ethernet connection, placing it in a shield, or making a design that will add all these things in a shield is a possibility and kind of needed to make sure that a) you're detached from Arduino b) people can do the same (to begin with) as they do in Arduino.

   Apparently lots of people are working on the F4 software (I wrote the Random Number Generator library yesterday), and as soon as a board that can take it (not just the discovery), it should be pretty cool to put it in to use. :)

   Posted 3 years ago #
2. 

   olimexino
   Member

   How important is to have HS USB host? this will add at least EUR 6 to the price and I doubt many would need it. what do you access as HS host? USB flash disks? HD Cameras?

   Posted 3 years ago #
3. 

   siy
   Member

   Well, perhaps this is not so important, although ability to access devices at high speed might be useful. I just think that such a high speed interface better to place directly on board rather than on expansion board.

   Posted 3 years ago #
4. 

   bubulindo
   Member

   Doesn't the F407 have a camera interface? Why some outside camera?

   I don't think that having the USB host will be, for me (and only me), a big deal. But that is my opinion and I am sure a lot more people here disagree with me.

   Posted 3 years ago #
5. 

   olimexino
   Member

   yes it have camera interface and STM32-P407 have camera on board :-)
   camera interface is also good if you want to implement Digital Storage Oscilloscope for instance as can read pretty fast data from outside, for instance adding one fast ADC will turn this board in useful digital oscilloscope or adding buffers with level shifter from 1.65-5V can turn the board to cheap logic analyzer

   I will post the schematic for final review and comments before we run prototype

   Posted 3 years ago #
6. 

   lorenson
   Member

   the Olimex board is a real beauty :) but i agree with bubulindo , the more you put on it and less you can be creative.. The beauty of the Stk500 at the time was that "virginess" and off course the price.
   Arduino board is the same pattern, Well designed cheap board and a hell of a community!! and everything is opensource!! but they manage to sell boards (30$ is better than playing with acid and fumes :)).
   So the maple was the same pattern, simple boards, low prices, but now it's waiting for the community! :)

   Posted 3 years ago #
7. 

   olimexino
   Member

   Obviously Arduino team is struggled with Due - what I read on their forum is that they have changed the microcontroller, and from my own experience with Atmel SAM9, Atmel usually hide lot of underwater stones and do not tell you about them until you find them yourself the hard way.

   I only can imagine what Arduino team goes through and do not envy them :)

   Also from what I see in Pinguino development mixing 8 and 32 bit platform support just make the whole software less optimized and code bloated.

   The advantage of Maple is that it started as 32 bit and have no 8 bit compatibility burden to bear, so this is the chancee to come with better and faster board which is already CORETEX M4 with Floating points and probably times more productive than the delayed Due.

   What I see is that there are lot of projects which hang around and wait Due for like G-code interpreters for Reprap, Video processing etc, F4 can handle these without problem.

   Posted 3 years ago #
8. 

   lorenson
   Member

   @olimexino
   I agree with you, that's what i liked in the maple board: simpleness like the mbed . but the community for the mbed is bigger, so the software is growing better (bottlenecked with an online compiler).
   So, my point was that the solution is software, not in hardware if you keep it simple.

   Posted 3 years ago #
9. 

   gbulmer
   Moderator

   olimexino

   How important is to have HS USB host?

   USB Host is very important, not so sure that HS USB host is essential.

   this will add at least EUR 6 to the price and I doubt many would need it. what do you access as HS host? USB flash disks? HD Cameras?

   I think Android devices support HS? USB HS flash drives might keep up with 100T Ethernet.

   I was talking to lots of folks at Dev8D, and there were quite a few people interested in controlling Android devices. A USB host can theoretically talk to all Android devices. I don't think the extra benefit of HS USB host is as important as USB host, though I would pay an extra 6 Euro's to get it.

   I think people should continue to use Arduino's for what they are good at.
   Obviously I need to use STM32 for projects where Arduino is inadequate. These are different use cases to Arduino.

   I would also be interested in F4 boards with Ethernet and/or HS USB might be much more attractive for some projects than a dumb 'Arduino style' board.

   Ethernet would be very, very useful. 100Mbit would be much more useful than the 4Mbit the SPI based Arduino Ethernet shields. I don't think the 'base' product must have Ethernet.

   Posted 3 years ago #
10. 

    lorenson
    Member

    what you are talking here is about internal peripherals of the microcontroller not about some add-ons you have on your dev board. But, as you said the 'dumb arduino style board' can at least do some ethernet, try to do it with the equivalent pic16 (you can rot under the sun :)). We are talking here about old 90's technologies versus yesterday one.

    I totally agree with you you can't use an ARM for flashing LED's, but the ARM is not for the noob (why not?). That's the point of the MAple!!!!

    Posted 3 years ago #
11. 

    gbulmer
    Moderator

    lorenson -

    what you are talking here is about internal peripherals of the microcontroller not about some add-ons you have on your dev board.

    What?
    I want to use the internal Ethernet peripheral on an STM32F4 at 100Mbits.
    I do not intend to route that to a daughterboard/shield. That is mid-band FM radio (pretty close to WJLQ - Journey100 100.7 FM Pensacola, for Florida residents), and that ignores modulation artefacts.
    I would not put that sort of signal through Arduino/Maple style header pins.
    I want that Ethernet socket on my development board.

    the ARM is not for the noob

    I believe I disagree with you.

    I try to choose the tool or technology on the basis of the project needs and the capability and goals of the person, or people, who are building the project. I don't over-engineer the technology just because someone has some experience, and under-engineer because they are new. I try to achieve a balance which increases the chances of success, and provides some resilience and room to manoeuvre (and other qualities that mater).

    For example I'm aiming to use STM32F4 with school children who have never programmed or built any electronics, because I think the project requirements and their capabilities are balanced, and it provides the highest likelihood of success.

    Posted 3 years ago #
12. 

    lorenson
    Member

    school children!! you have to give me your learning trick, I had hard job to make university student to understand uart protocol!! :) Nice job

    I understand what you're saying when you want an ethernet socket on you're dev board, but you're facing a one day problem. You want to design a board for everyone's need, not specially for the one who want to make real time frame capture.

    But I totally agree with you to teach ARM processors at school, and leave arduino for kindergarten:)

    Posted 3 years ago #
13. 

    olimexino
    Member

    thanks for the suggestions, indeed having 100MBit Ethernet is great, same is with the High Speed USB host, camera on boards, TFT display and stereo sound hifi DAC, these are all great features and there is already such board STM32-P207 :) it cost $130

    but if we have target to release this board for $40 and make it entry level and affordable we are pressed by the Bill of Material cost and have to pickup just most important features which are MUST for everyone interested to develop with STN32F4

    how easy would be to work with the board depends on the libraries
    even kid would be able to send e-mail with this board if :

    SendEmail(RecipientNameString, MessageString) library function is available

    Posted 3 years ago #
14. 

    mabl
    Member

    @olimexino

    First of all: This is a great effort! I love all your ideas - this board would be a dream come true.

    But pretty please, give us Ethernet. I have greatly missed it on the Discovery board - and given that it is included in the F4 (I know we will need a PHY...) I'd hate to see a F4x7 board without it.

    Posted 3 years ago #
15. 

    olimexino
    Member

    what about base board STM32F407ZGT6 (1MB Flash/196KB RAM) for eur 30 with:
    - USB Full speed host
    - USB device
    - USB-OTG
    - micro SD card
    - UEXT connector
    - 2 leds
    - 2 buttons
    - power supply
    - RTC battery backup
    - connectors for arduino shields
    - connectors for all ports PA PB PC PD PE PF PG 7x16 = 112 GPIOs

    and combo (USB HighSpeed Host + Ethernet 100MBit) shield sold separately for EUR 15 which will be designed in such manner to not obstruct Arduino shields?

    Posted 3 years ago #

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