leaflabsandy
Member
Source/Vendor/Part # of Maple Ext. 18 pin 10.5 mm female stacking header?
This part is very hard to find !!!!
I am planning to make a breadboard shield and need to know
where I can obtain the external 18 pin (2 x 9 sq. hdr) stacking
female header with 10.5 mm height pins. (matches other stacking headers)
This way I can have all the I/O pins on my shield.
leaflabsandy, unfortunately, we don't know of a source for this part or if it exists.
I just added these shield template EAGLE files to the repo:
http://code.google.com/p/leafhw/source/browse/trunk/mapleshieldtemplate/mapleshield-r1-v1.brd
http://code.google.com/p/leafhw/source/browse/trunk/mapleshieldtemplate/mapleshield-r1-v1.sch
Let us know how it goes and what you figure out.
leaflabsandy
Member
4ucon (Tiawan) part/item numbers for stacking headers.
Item#
18687 1x4 dip=10.5mm
19807 1x5 dip=10.5mm
18688 1x6 dip=10.5mm <--- Maple (2) Standard - non breadboard.
18689 1x8 dip=10.5mm <--- Maple (2) Standard - non breadboard.
19793 1x20 dip=10.5mm <--- $0.19/ea /1000 (min. order)
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For making a PCB shield for the Maple:
Option #1 Just use the standard stacking connectors from Adafruit or Sparkfun.
eg. buy 4 1x6 and cut 3 off on two of them then put all four connectors side by side.
Cost 4 x $0.50 ~ $2.00
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9279
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9280
Save some money and buy the kit.
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=10007
Opiton #2 Try to obtain one 1x20 stacking connector (4ucon #19793) and just cut two 9's off
and then put them side by side. (if possible super glue them together?)
4ucon wants a minimum order of 1000 ??
--------------------------------------------
For making a perfboard shield for the Maple:
History:
http://brettbeauregard.com/blog/2009/07/arduino-offset-header/
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=9374
A perfboard/breadboard has a grid of holes evenly spaced on 0.10 " centers.
The Maple has the same layout as the Arduino on the standard pin headers... the
external connector is correct in the hortizonal direction but not the vertical (Y)direction.
The vertical spacing on the external connector is off by 0.050 ". <----- ?
It is not on a even grid of 0.10 " in the vertical (Y) direction.
The Italians and the Leaf Blowers made the same midnight mistake. ?
Two wrongs make it right?
BTW...
Leaflabs should try to get the 1x20's stacking headers in for their customers.
The spacing on the 18-pin header being off by 0.050" was a mistake on my part. I intended it to be and thought I put it on the same 0.1" spacing that the rest of the pins are on (or could be with extra headers on 0-14) until I started making a perf-board shield last week.
leaflabsandy
Member
To the most casual observer this problem is not a big deal. Problem is, the Maple external 0.050" offset problem is a big deal for developers.
There are several options that can be done:
Options:
#1. Do nothing. Leave the Maple's 0.050 " external 18 pin offset problem alone and not fix it.
#2. Fix the Maple's 0.050" external 18 pin offset problem now.
#3. Fix the Maple's 0.050" external 18 pin offset problem in the "future" along with a revision change.
#4. Fix the Maple's 0.050" external 18 pin offset problem AND the offset problem (between 8 pin connectors) on the Arduino now.
Option Comments:
Option #1 Probably the best route. After all, the Arduino still has an offset problem.
The solution is to make the users aware of this problem and provide "offset" stacking connectors
for the Arduino offset problem and the Maple's 18 pin external connector.
Option #2. You need to inform everyone you are going to do this. I have over 7 shields designed
and this change would cost me a lot of $$$$. For other previous Maple owners, their boards
spacing would not be the same.
Option #3. This would freeze developers, like me, knowing the fix will cause my shields to become obsolete in the future.
Option #4. This would make life easier and would provide easy perf board / prototyping for the Maple's users. The downside would NOT make the Maple foot print spacing and the Arduino compatible. This would negate your Arduino compatible advertisements and cause a PR problem. The trouble with existing shields for the Arduino is that the Arduino is a 5 VDC device and the Maple is a ARM 3.3 V device. Other than a few shields, like the terminal block or proto shields, most of the shields for the Arduino would have to be modified anyway for the Maple. By having the Maple completely "on grid (0.1 " sp.)" and unique could / would be the right course of action to take?
I am very curious, Okie, what option # are you going to choose?
My mind is open for discussion with opinionated users and the Leaf Blowers.
The mistake (or was it on purpose?) made by Arduino on the 8-pin headers was addressed with putting pads for headers with standard spacing right beside the Arduino-spaced headers, as Seeed Studio and others have done on their clones, and I think that's a well-rounded solution for users.
If we plan to change the 18-pin header to standard spacing, I think it should be done ASAP.
This is a tough decision...I'm going to think some more and will post more soon.
poslathian
LeafLabs
The following was proposed, what do you think?
- extend the 18 pin connector out beyond the "arduino square" layout, so it jets out a bit. It decompatifies the board quite a bit, but the extension can be aligned on the 1/10" boundary, and then the header is still acessible after a shield is put on, because it will jet out from underneath...thoughts?
Either way, rev5 changes are being proposed and decided on pretty soon here, so lets re-liven this thread!
leaflabsandy
Member
I don't understand?
Please, could you restate, in other terms, what your fix is?
Quote: - extend the 18 pin connector out beyond the "arduino square" layout, so it jets out a bit. It decompatifies the board quite a bit, but the extension can be aligned on the 1/10" boundary, and then the header is still acessible after a shield is put on, because it will jet out from underneath...thoughts?"
Quote: "Either way, rev5 changes are being proposed and decided on pretty soon here, so lets re-liven this thread!"
What happen to rev. 4 ?
The 18-pin connector cannot be moved up or down 0.05" without moving the mounting holes, so what if we moved it to the right enough to clear the mounting holes and moved it up or down 0.05"? It may look have to kind of funky with that change. In that position, it would allow access to it while using most shields made for Arduino because most of them don't extend in that direction.
Rev. 4 includes only corrections to the silkscreen but no electrical changes and is with a new manufacturer and assembly company.
leaflabsandy
Member
If you move it to the right then you will be off in the x direction.
I don't think you can move it another 0.100 " in the x direction.
To fix it, the 18 pin connector will have to only move 0.050" north in the y direction
along with the adjustment of the mounting holes and also re-routing of the board outline.
Note: The power and JTAG will also have to move?
poslathian
LeafLabs
leaflabsandy:
you are correct. Here are the final options and our comments, well float these options out here to solicit user feedback and make a decision:
possible changes:
1) move the 18 pin header north, and delete the mounting hole there or move it north, which conflicts with the button -
2) move the 18 pin header south, and delete the mounting hole there or move it south, which conflicts with the analog bank -
3) move the button to sit next to or underneath the reset, move the header north, and the hole north (ehh...not really enough space)
4) move the button left, move the header up, move the hole up
- no matter what, moving the header to 1/10 spacing breaks arduino mounting hole form factor.
heres another option, which cant be done for this coming run, but could be done in the future (probably the october run) -
5) delete the power jumper bank, in favor of a little autoselect circuit - something weve been planning on doing anyway. Move the lipo charger chip where that bank used to be, move the button where the lipo charger is (requires moving the lipo socket down a bit), move the header north, move the hole north.
I like 5, but it means doing another run before the final "version" layout.
No matter what, the decision has been made to not populate the 18pin header, but ship with the connector in the box, that way you can get to it as you see fit.
6) Given that at least 50% of this issue isnt about deciding the "optimal" layout, but instead deciding on the"final" layout (so people can make shields and boards and such), simply unpopulate the 18 pin header, make no layout changes, and say that the current layout is the final layout. This means Maple will forever fail to meet the 1/10" grid. This is probably ok, having a flaw is better than having the design in flux, preventing people from building on top. The whole point of Maple Native was to fix issues like these, namely saying that Maple IS arduino form and library and pin compatible, period. Maple Native is a new board that fixes all the problems we didnt like about arduino - allowing us to sleep at night with a Maple with an off-grid header.
I would say, at this point, option 6 is favored around here.
Last call for final comments on this issue! Thanks for the input!
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